COVID-19: Tory MP who said NHS figures were being 'manipulated' refuses to apologise
Sir Desmond Swayne says the comments, made in November to Save Our Rights UK, were "perfectly legitimate at the time".
Thursday 28 January 2021 18:44, UK
A Tory MP who told anti-vaccination campaigners to "persist" in protesting lockdown and that NHS capacity figures were being "manipulated" to exaggerate the scale of the pandemic has refused to apologise for his remarks.
Sir Desmond Swayne said the comments, made in November to Save Our Rights UK and obtained by Sky News, were "perfectly legitimate at the time" and he accepts that the COVID-19 situation "has changed entirely with the new variant".
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"I certainly regret the fuss they've caused," Sir Desmond told Sky's All Out Politics when asked about his remarks.
Asked if he would be apologising, Sir Desmond replied: "No, the complaint was legitimate at the time."
The comments have led to calls from some for the MP to have the Conservative whip withdrawn, but Sir Desmond said such a move would be akin to a "thought crime".
Michael Gove told Sky News earlier that Sir Desmond should apologise and retract his comments.
However, the Cabinet Office minister would not be drawn on whether he should lose the Tory whip.
Mr Gove said: "Sir Desmond is wrong. I work with Sir Desmond, I have great affection for him but I'm afraid here he is completely out of order."
He added: "I would hope that he issues a full and complete retraction and apology for what he said - it's unacceptable."
Asked about Sir Desmond's comments, Boris Johnson's spokesman said the prime minister agreed with what Mr Gove said.
However, asked about them during a trip to Scotland, the PM replied: "I'm sorry I haven't seen that."
Later on Thursday, Home Secretary Priti Patel also called for Sir Desmond to apologise and retract his comments.
"Too many people have died from this deadly, deadly virus - look at the pressures on the NHS right now," she said.
"Those comments are thoroughly wrong and I very much hope Desmond will reflect and take those comments back."
It is understood that the Conservative chief whip Mark Spencer spoke to Sir Desmond and asked him to attend a meeting with scientific advisers.
Labour's deputy leader Angela Rayner said the MP had "undermined" the government's messaging and public confidence in the vaccine programme.
She labelled Sir Desmond's comments as "really dangerous" and called for the whip to be removed immediately.
"Just saying he is wrong is nowhere near enough," Ms Rayner said.
Sky News revealed Sir Desmond's comments in an exclusive story on Wednesday.
During an interview with Save Our Rights UK, which says vaccines are dangerous, he said: "It seems to be a manageable risk, particularly as figures have been manipulated... We're told there is a deathly, deadly pandemic proceeding at the moment.
"That is difficult to reconcile with ICUs [intensive care units] actually operating at typical occupation levels for the time of year and us bouncing round at the typical level of deaths for the time of year."
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He also told the group, which has previously advanced false claims about COVID vaccines, in the interview: "As the last [House of Commons] Speaker used to say, [John] Bercow, he'd say 'Persist! Persist!' That's my advice - persist.
"And I'll persist too."
There is no evidence of data being manipulated, and at the time of the MP's comments, deaths were 14% above the five-year average - according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
Sir Desmond, a former minister, also gave an interview two weeks ago to notorious anti-vaxxer Del Bigtree, who was a producer for Andrew Wakefield's anti-vaccine propaganda film, Vaxxed.
Mr Wakefield is a former doctor who was struck off the UK medical register for a discredited study linking the MMR vaccine to autism.
In this interview, Sir Desmond claimed Britain had become "a police state" and accused the government of attempting to implement "social control", while the anti-vaxxer praised the MP as a "hero".
He said: "There are aspects of this [the government's actions] which I'm certain come down to social control, like the wearing of masks, the medical case you've just rubbished it earlier this evening."
When Sky News put these comments to Sir Desmond on Wednesday, he said he had never heard of Mr Bigtree.
He also doubled down on the comments about masks, saying he regards it as a matter of "social control".
The New Forest West MP added he was entitled to make his point of view on any platform and "it does not in any way mean that I accept points of view that they hold".
Speaking to Sky on Thursday, Sir Desmond reiterated this.
He said he did not believe he had given any credibility to anti-vaxxers and appeared on the show to talk about lockdowns.
Sir Desmond said he will take a COVID vaccine when offered one, adding: "I'm evangelical in my support for vaccination."
The Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH), which tracks anti-vax misinformation online, said comments like these "would cost lives".
According to CCDH, which tracks anti-vax misinformation online, Mr Bigtree is one of the most influential spreaders of anti-vaccine lies.
They said: "People of course have been confused by a new pathogen, a new disease which has emerged.
"It's caused a lot of concern. To see a member of parliament feeding off that concern, feeding the beast so to speak, is incredibly cynical, incredibly damaging, and will cost lives."
It later emerged on Thursday that Sir Desmond suggested to a controversial online radio host in November that COVID death figures were inflated and that 50,000 coronavirus deaths represented "what you would expect in a bad flu season".
The senior Conservative backbencher made the comments to Richie Allen, who has hosted conspiracy theorists and David Duke, the former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.
The Jewish Labour Movement has called on the Conservative Party to take "immediate action" against Sir Desmond as a result of his appearance on the programme.
Sky News has contacted both Sir Desmond and Richie Allen for a response.
Over three nights Sky News will host a series of special programmes examining the UK's response to the pandemic.
Watch COVID Crisis: Learning the Lessons at 8pm on 9, 10 and 11 February