Equality campaigner Trevor Phillips said Prince Harry used 'empty jargon' that 'he doesn’t appear to understand' when being interviewed about race alongside Meghan Markle yesterday.
Mr Phillips - the former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission - said the Duke of Sussex's use of the term 'structural racism' made him sound 'like a 1980s polytechnic lecturer'.
He also said Meghan's claim that she 'didn't realise that there was a Black History Month in Britain' was a mistake, because it was first celebrated in 1987, and showed 'how little she learnt about Britain' during her time in the country.
Equality campaigner Trevor Phillips (left) said Prince Harry (right) used 'empty jargon' that 'he doesn’t appear to understand' when being interviewed about race alongside Meghan yesterday
In the interview from the couple's £11million California mansion with the Evening Standard, Prince Harry revealed his 'awakening' to the discrimination faced by black people after meeting his wife.
In a separate article for the newspaper, the couple said: 'As long as structural racism exists, there will be generations of young people of colour who do not start their lives with the same equality of opportunity as their white peers.
'And for as long as that continues, untapped potential will never get to be realised.'
Mr Phillips said although he 'always wanted them to succeed', he was left feeling 'sorry for Harry' after he used the term 'structural racism' - a term he 'doesn’t appear to understand'.
In the interview, Harry also said that even though London 'celebrated as one of the most diverse cities in the world, if you actually get out on to the streets and talk to people, it doesn't feel as diverse as it actually is'.
Writing in The Times, Mr Phillips said: 'I feel sorry for Harry when he uses terms like “structural racism” that he doesn’t appear to understand and which make him sound like a 1980s polytechnic lecturer.
Mr Phillips also said Meghan's claim that she 'didn't realise that there was a Black History Month in Britain' was a mistake, as it was first celebrated in 1987, and showed 'how little she learnt about Britain' during her time there
At a glance: Harry and Meghan on racism, Black Lives Matter and Diversity's controversial dance routine
Harry -
On racism:
'Because I wasn't aware of so many of the issues and so many of the problems within the UK and also globally as well. I thought I did but I didn't.'
'You know, when you go in to a shop with your children and you only see white dolls, do you even think: 'That's weird, there is not a black doll there?' And I use that as just one example of where we as white people don't always have the awareness of what it must be like for someone else of a different coloured skin, of a black skin, to be in the same situation as we are where the world that we know has been created by white people for white people.'
'It is not about pointing the finger, it is not about blame. I will be the first person to say, again, this is about learning. And about how we can make it better. I think it is a really exciting time in British culture and British history, and in world culture. This is a real moment that we should be grasping and actually celebrating. Because no one else has managed to do this before us.'
On Diversity's BLM dance routine:
'We spoke to Ashley Banjo a few weeks ago, straight after the Britain's Got Talent situation. And that in itself, I am sure even me talking about it will be controversial, but the reality of it is he and his team of guys put on the most amazing display.
'We had such a good chat with Ashley. He was really strong, he felt great about it, but at the same time he was concerned because of the reaction. It was a real surprise that there was what? 1,100 complaints after the show and then three days of hype it became 20 or 25,000. I am very glad Ofcom made the decision that they did but that in itself kind of proves how much this conversation needs to continue.'
On London:
Harry said that even in London 'celebrated as one of the most diverse cities in the world, if you actually get out on to the streets and talk to people, it doesn't feel as diverse as it actually is.
'Therefore, now is the best time for us to be able to use our platform and you use your platform as well so we can actually start a conversation and introduce people to the black community that are making a massive difference within their own communities and across the UK as a whole as well.'
On being away from the UK:
'Everything has been through video, everything has been in a room, somewhere. Actually it doesn't matter where in the world we have been, we have stayed in touch with and supported the organisations as much as humanly possible.'
Meghan
On BLM protests:
'... when there is just peaceful protest and when there is the intention of just wanting community and just wanting the recognition of equality, then that is a beautiful thing. While it has been challenging for a lot of people certainly having to make this reckoning of historical significance that has got people to the place that they are, that is uncomfortable for people. We recognise that. It is uncomfortable for us.'
On life in America:
'We are doing well. [Archie] is so good. We are very lucky with our little one. He is just so busy, he is all over the place. He keeps us on our toes. We are just so lucky.
'Everyone has been accustomed to what it means to be distanced. The impact of that, whether it is across the Pond or across town, you are still for the most part through a computer screen. We have all had to adapt to how we can have the most impact as possible within the constraints of what has happening with Covid-19. Like all of you, we are doing the best that we can and hoping that our passion and our commitment is still felt as it certainly hasn't wavered.'
On nominating her BHM NextGen Trailblazers:
'An incredible example is Baroness Lawrence. Everything she has done in memory of her son [Stephen] is creating legacy across the UK in what it means to really push for the change that is necessary.'
Their joint plea to tackle structural racism:
'For as long as structural racism exists, there will be generations of young people of colour who do not start their lives with the same equality of opportunity as their white peers. And for as long as that continues, untapped potential will never get to be realised.'
'It’s the sort of empty jargon you’d expect him to be fed by the fashionable types behind this appeal.
'He puzzlingly reminded us that while London was “celebrated as one of the most diverse cities in the world” when “you get out on the street and you actually talk to people it doesn’t feel as diverse as it actually is”.
'Seriously? Two out of every five Londoners are non-white. Diversity isn’t so easy to miss in the capital.'
In the interview, Meghan also said she 'didn't realise that there was a Black History Month in Britain'.
Mr Phillips said this was a 'a mistake' as the first Black History Month was launched in 1987.
He wrote: 'For at least two decades it has been officially celebrated by British governments of every stripe, and marked by members of the royal family.
'Meghan simply reminded us how little she learnt about Britain and, in particular, that she was unaware of the one moment in the year when Black Britain is acknowledged by Establishment Britain.'
To coincide with the interview the couple revealed their list of nominations for Black History Month's Next Generation Trailblazers, who were selected for challenging prejudice and contributing to British society.
In his piece, Mr Phillips said that while the list highlights 'admirable artists, actors, athletes and activists', it fails to mention 'doctors, scientists, lawyers, business leaders or teachers'.
He wrote: 'There is nothing wrong with the “trailblazers” he and Meghan have chosen.
'Several are admirable artists, actors, athletes and activists. But Black History Month was inaugurated to show that we black folk are wealth creators, inventors and professionals.
'This list has no doctors, scientists, lawyers, business leaders or teachers. The Harry and Meghan Show has fallen straight into the oldest trap in the book: showing black folk as interesting but not important, prominent but not powerful.
'Sadly this may say less about black Britain and more about a couple who could have changed the world but have settled for pleading, “Let me entertain you”.'
The couple's interview comes at a key moment for race issues around the world after the killing of unarmed black man George Floyd by a US policeman sparked a wave of protest.
During the unrest this summer there were scenes of violence, arson and looting, and a number of businesses were targeted.
Asked for her views on the BLM protests, Meghan admitted they had been 'inflammatory for a lot of people'.
She continued: 'But when there is just peaceful protest and when there is the intention of just wanting community and just wanting the recognition of equality, then that is a beautiful thing.
'While it has been challenging for a lot of people certainly having to make this reckoning of historical significance that has got people to the place that they are, that is uncomfortable for people. We recognise that. It is uncomfortable for us.
'And I think when everyone just starts to own that, we push through that and focus on how do we make it different moving forward? And if we just focus on the uplift and the positivity of that, while still acknowledging the past, that's where we reshape things, and that shouldn't be inflammatory at all. That should be really exciting actually.'
Meghan said that BLM in the US was a 'different movement' from the one that existed in the UK.
Harry, 36, who at one point was joined on camera by the couple's Beagle, Guy, said he had become more aware of the issue of racism after marrying Meghan, 39.
He said: 'Because I wasn't aware of so many of the issues and so many of the problems within the UK and also globally as well. I thought I did but I didn't.'
'You know, when you go in to a shop with your children and you only see white dolls, do you even think: 'That's weird, there is not a black doll there?'
'And I use that as just one example of where we as white people don't always have the awareness of what it must be like for someone else of a different coloured skin, of a black skin, to be in the same situation as we are where the world that we know has been created by white people for white people.'
'It is not about pointing the finger, it is not about blame. I will be the first person to say, again, this is about learning.
'And about how we can make it better. I think it is a really exciting time in British culture and British history, and in world culture. This is a real moment that we should be grasping and actually celebrating. Because no one else has managed to do this before us.'
The Prince weighed in on the issue of the Diversity dance troupe's BLM inspired dance on Britain's Got Talent, which sparked 24,500 complaints to Ofcom.
'We spoke to Ashley Banjo a few weeks ago, straight after the Britain's Got Talent situation,' Harry said.
'And that in itself, I am sure even me talking about it will be controversial, but the reality of it is he and his team of guys put on the most amazing display.
'We had such a good chat with Ashley. He was really strong, he felt great about it, but at the same time he was concerned because of the reaction. It was a real surprise that there was what? 1,100 complaints after the show and then three days of hype it became 20 or 25,000. I am very glad Ofcom made the decision that they did but that in itself kind of proves how much this conversation needs to continue.'
Meanwhile, Harry spoke of how he had become more aware of issues of racial discrimination in society and questioned how far Britain had progressed.
The prince said they although London was celebrated as one of world's most diverse cities, 'If you actually get out on to the streets and talk to people, it doesn't feel as diverse as it actually is.
'Therefore, now is the best time for us to be able to use our platform and you use your platform as well so we can actually start a conversation and introduce people to the black community that are making a massive difference within their own communities and across the UK as a whole as well.'
The couple recently moved into a £11million mansion in Santa Barbara after breaking with the Royal Family and leaving the UK.
Meghan said the couple were 'doing well' and enjoying life with their baby, Archie.
She said: 'We are very lucky with our little one. He is just so busy, he is all over the place.
The couple were interviewed by Evening Standard editor Emily Sheffield, and reporters Abbianca Makoni and Lizzie Edmonds
'He keeps us on our toes. We are just so lucky.
'Everyone has been accustomed to what it means to be distanced. The impact of that, whether it is across the Pond or across town, you are still for the most part through a computer screen.
'We have all had to adapt to how we can have the most impact as possible within the constraints of what has happening with Covid-19.
'Like all of you, we are doing the best that we can and hoping that our passion and our commitment is still felt as it certainly hasn't wavered.'
Harry said he was coping with being away from Britain by using Zoom to stay in touch with people at home.
'Everything has been through video, everything has been in a room, somewhere,' he said.
'Actually it doesn't matter where in the world we have been, we have stayed in touch with and supported the organisations as much as humanly possible.'
Full transcript from Harry and Meghan's Zoom interview with the Evening Standard
Meghan: 'Yeah we're doing well, how are you guys doing? We're very lucky with our little one, he's just so busy. He's all over the place. He's just amazing. He keeps us on our toes, but we're really just so lucky.'
Abbianca Makoni, reporter: 'Why have you decided to launch this project?'
Meghan: 'We all decided to come together and do it. I mean, truth be told, and I was in the UK for a few years until we moved back here, I didn't realise that there was a Black History Month in Britain, and so to have that brought to our attention was really exciting I think, from a standpoint of everything that's going on in the world but mostly just because it's about celebrating community. And really if you're celebrating all of the individuals who are making an incredible impact within our community, then what a great thing to be a part of. I want to highlight those people that I don't know personally and really find their work to be notable but also to ask them to highlight who that next generation is, who those other people are. What it does is just really broaden the list of role models for young British people, and people abroad, black or white, or any other colour for that matter.
Harry: 'I mean, you can only… we've talked about this before, you can only be what you can see, and I think you guys touched on it right at the beginning there, which is the UK is incredibly diverse and London especially is one of the, celebrated as one of the most diverse cities in the world, yet if you actually get out on the streets and you actually talk to people, I think it is… it's not always as… it doesn't feel as diverse as it actually is. And therefore now is the best time for us to be able to use our platform, joint with your platform as well, so that we can actually start a conversation and introduce people to the black community that are making a massive difference within their own communities but across the UK as a whole as well. So I think it's a month of celebration, and of course with a lot of other things going on in the UK and America and around the world at the moment, there can be parallels of connections to that, but essentially for us this is very much a celebration of Black History Month.'
Makoni: 'And why is the project more significant now, especially with everything that's been happening with the Black Lives Matter movement and the protests across the globe?'
Harry: 'For me, it's awareness and it's education and it's teaching. You know, I've had a sort of an awakening as such of my own, because I wasn't aware of so many of the issues and so many of the problems within the UK, but also globally as well. I thought I did, but I didn't. And this isn't about pointing the finger, this isn't about blaming anybody, this is about using this opportunity, this month, to introduce Brits to other Brits that they might not know about or they might not have heard about. And I think the power of community that comes from that is absolutely vast, especially for young black men and young black girls.'
Meghan: 'Well, and I think also what it does is remind people of our share of humanity, and that's the takeaway. It's educational but it's also really exciting just to find more people in the community that are inspirational.'
Lizzie Edmonds, reporter: 'Do you have any reflections on the Black Lives Matter in the UK in particular and does being over in the States give you a different perspective on it?'
Meghan: 'It's a different movement. The impetus is from a place of recognising equality, and if you just go back to its ground level of that, then I don't think there's anything controversial about it. You know, we had the fortune of talking very early on this year, when the Black Lives Matter and the racial justice movement in the US was coming to a head after the murder of George Floyd, we spoke with Alicia Garza, one of the founders of Black Lives Matter. And as she could reiterate, the impetus is really just about reminding people of your worth. And I think, you know, as we've seen different iterations of it, what has been inflammatory I think for a lot of people is when any version of a community becomes disruptive. But when there's just peaceful protests and when there's the intention of just wanting unity and just wanting recognition of equality, then that is a beautiful thing actually. And so, you know, while it has been challenging for people certainly in having to make this reckoning of historical significance that has gotten people to the place that they are, that's uncomfortable for people. And we recognise that, it's uncomfortable for us. And I think when everyone just starts to own that, we push through that and focus on how do we make it different moving forward? And if we just focus on the uplift and the positivity of that, while still acknowledging the past, that's where we reshape things, and that shouldn't be inflammatory at all. That should be really exciting actually.'
Harry: 'I don't know… there's not much to add on top of that, it was so perfectly said.'
Meghan: 'That's a hard question for us to answer by the way.'
Harry: 'There's a reason why we decided to do this with you guys. You have the most diverse readership across all of the newspapers, and by the looks of it here but also from some of the material that I've read, you have a diverse workforce internal to the Evening Standard as well, which is not the same for others. So that is something to be celebrated, but again, just because of that, there can be a bias that comes out of reporting, out of society, out of all corners of society, and again that was something that I wasn't aware of, but it became very clear to me. But again, this is for me, this is an opportunity for the people to learn, for all of us to learn.'
Makoni: 'And how did you choose the list of high profile people to help you nominate the trailblazers?'
Harry: 'People that we know. People that we've interacted with over the years, people that have been mentioned to us by other people. Look, you know, this job has a certain uniqueness about it where we travel around the world, but we also visit all the communities, not all, but many communities within the UK, and the same names keep coming up. And we've been really just impressed, humbled and inspired at the same time by these individuals, whether it's Doreen Lawrence, or whether it's, you know, Neil Basu - these are people that are really, that are genuinely making a difference. We spoke to Ashley Banjo a few weeks ago, straight after the Britain's Got Talent situation. You know, that in itself, I am sure even me talking about it will become controversial, but the reality is that he and his team of guys put on the most amazing display of how they saw, or how 2020…'
Meghan: 'Sorry, my dog has just come…'
Harry: 'And we had such a good chat with Ashley. You know, he was really strong, he felt great about it, but at the same time he was concerned because of the reaction. And again, it's not about pointing the finger, it is not about blame. I will be the first person to say that this, again, is about learning. Learning about what our part is in all this and how we can make it better.
Meghan: 'When you happen to look at some of the names of the people from our list that we know, some of the people that they suggested is really exciting. So for example, Misan (Harriman) had chosen someone who created the black curriculum. And when you start to look at history books and what we're taught, to see it through a different lens, see it through a diverse lens, will help shape how children understand where they come from and then to know better where they're going.'
Makoni: 'This is a cause that's close to your heart along with many other charitable causes in Britain. Is it difficult not being able to be in the UK at the moment to be directly involved in them?'
Meghan: 'Well, you know, I think with Covid, my goodness, everyone has gotten accustomed to what it means to be distanced, right? And so the impact of that, whether it's across the pond or across town, you are still for the most part through a computer screen. So I think we've all had to adapt to how we can have the most impact and influence as possible within the constraints of what has happened with Covid-19.'
Harry: 'Everything has been through video, everything has been in a room somewhere. So actually it doesn't matter where in the world that we've been, we've stayed in touch and we've supported the organisations that we've been affiliated with, as much as humanly possible.'
Meghan: 'You know, like all of you, we're doing the best that we can and hoping that our passion and our commitment is still felt, because it certainly hasn't wavered.'
