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Republican debate: Trump v Bush and Cruz v Rubio as tempers flare – as it happened

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  • Frontrunner Donald Trump and evangelical favorite Ted Cruz in spotlight
  • Six remaining presidential hopefuls seek boost in the south
 Updated 
, with and in Greenville, South Carolina
Sat 13 Feb 2016 23.13 ESTFirst published on Sat 13 Feb 2016 20.27 EST
Donald Trump
Donald Trump, right, makes a point across Ted Cruz, aimed at Jeb Bush. Photograph: Jonathan Ernst/Reuters
Donald Trump, right, makes a point across Ted Cruz, aimed at Jeb Bush. Photograph: Jonathan Ernst/Reuters

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James Pethokoukis
James Pethokoukis

On taxes, let’s actually be clear: Ted Cruz has proposed a value-added tax, or VAT. He can call it a “business flat tax” but it is a VAT. Whatever its pluses and minus, it allows him to propose a very low income tax with the rest of revenue-generating bits hidden on the business side. That’s rather clever, really.

Rubio’s tax plan is in sync with past successful Republican tax plans in that it would improve incentives to invest while also directing immediate tax relief to taxpayers; that was both the Reagan and Bush II plans. But it is really more of a general election plan in that it can be sold as something more than “cut taxes for the rich and all be well”.

Of course, all the Republican tax plans are big revenue losers for the federal, which Democrats will certainly attack in a general election.

Carson’s answer is cut off by commerce.

“Dr Carson, I’m sorry, we have to go to commercial. The free market wants what it wants.”

Moderator: Mr. Carson, do you wanna weigh in on taxation, Medicare or Social Security?

Carson: Well, let me just say m—

[commercial break]

— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) February 14, 2016
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Ben Carson - who is still on the stage - is asked a question! In answer, he tells people to check his website for details on his tax plan, which is always a crowd-pleasing strategy.

Kasich makes the fiscal case for expanding Medicaid. Money saved by treating mentally ill, drug addicts etc.

— Jill Lawrence (@JillDLawrence) February 14, 2016

Jeb says he admires Kasich’s moves; but then pivots to saying that he wants to repeal Obamacare.

Kasich says that Jeb knows that he’s no pro-Obamacare. But then he points to Reagan as the basis for getting “people on their feet.”

This is a fight between the two of them; but it’s hard to tell because they’re being much more polite, and they are both trying for political reasons to wriggle out of supporting not putting the mentally ill in prison, which is a weird political belief to be ashamed of.

Kasich gets a key question, about his support of Medicare expansion and how it fits in with conservative ambitions.

“When we expand medicaid and we treat the mentally ill, then they don’t live under a bridge or in a prison where they cost $22,500 per year,” he says, in an answer that wouldn’t be out of place in the Democratic debate the other day. “Guess what else: they get their lives back.”

James Pethokoukis
James Pethokoukis

Medicare and Social Security reform has been a foundational Republican issue for decades, and yet Trump completely rejects it.

His solution to program funding problems is, basically, more economic growth – even though Social Security benefits actually rise with economic growth. The math doesn’t work.

Trump’s position shows how the Republican party is moving away from entitlement reform now that it depends more and more on older voters. Social Security is now concerned one part of Americans’ “earned benefits” – as opposed to the “welfare” benefits of Obamcare, Medicaid and various income supports which, you know, go to Democratic voters.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton is speaking at a rally in Denver, Colorado:

HRC starts her speech in Denver with: "What a performance! Of course, I'm talking about Beyonce but the Broncos did great too"

— Monica Alba (@AlbaMonica) February 14, 2016

It’s good at this point to remember just how politically incredible this situation is:

The GOP frontrunner is pledging to defend Social Security, minutes after calling Iraq a "big, fat mistake."

— Luke Brinker (@LukeBrinker) February 14, 2016

Trump: I'm gonna fix Social Security.

Moderator: OK, but, like, how are you gonna do that?

Trump: Let me tell you: It'll be tremendous.

— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) February 14, 2016

Ted Cruz up next. Says the economy isn’t going to be solved with “magic pixie dust,” which I guess loses him the magic pixie vote.

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